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Posted By Blake Hounshell
Tuesday, January 18, 2011 - 2:34 AM
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DOHA, Qatar—David Remnick, call your office.
In a speech billed as a discussion of the Bush and Obama eras, New Yorker journalist Seymour Hersh delivered a rambling, conspiracy-laden diatribe here Monday expressing his disappointment with President Barack Obama and his dissatisfaction with the direction of U.S. foreign policy.
"Just when we needed an angry black man," he began, his arm perched jauntily on the podium, "we didn't get one."
It quickly went downhill from there.
Hersh, whose exposés of gross abuses by members of the U.S. military in Vietnam and Iraq have earned him worldwide fame and high journalistic honors, said he was writing a book on what he called the "Cheney-Bush years" and saw little difference between that period and the Obama administration.
He said that he was keeping a "checklist" of aggressive U.S. policies that remained in place, including torture and "rendition" of terrorist suspects to allied countries, which he alleged was ongoing.
He also charged that U.S. foreign policy had been hijacked by a cabal of neoconservative "crusaders" in the former vice president's office and now in the special operations community.
"What I'm really talking about is how eight or nine neoconservative, radicals* if you will, overthrew the American government. Took it over," he said of his forthcoming book. "It's not only that the neocons took it over but how easily they did it -- how Congress disappeared, how the press became part of it, how the public acquiesced."
Hersh then brought up the widespread looting that took place in Baghdad after the fall of Saddam Hussein in 2003. "In the Cheney shop, the attitude was, ‘What's this? What are they all worried about, the politicians and the press, they're all worried about some looting? ... Don't they get it? We're gonna change mosques into cathedrals. And when we get all the oil, nobody's gonna give a damn.'"
"That's the attitude," he continued. "We're gonna change mosques into cathedrals. That's an attitude that pervades, I'm here to say, a large percentage of the Joint Special Operations Command."
He then alleged that Gen. Stanley McChrystal, who headed JSOC before briefly becoming the top U.S. commander in Afghanistan, and his successor, Vice Adm. William McRaven, as well as many within JSOC, "are all members of, or at least supporters of, Knights of Malta."
Hersh may have been referring to the Sovereign Order of Malta, a Roman Catholic organization commited to "defence of the Faith and assistance to the poor and the suffering," according to its website.
"Many of them are members of Opus Dei," Hersh continued. "They do see what they're doing -- and this is not an atypical attitude among some military -- it's a crusade, literally. They see themselves as the protectors of the Christians. They're protecting them from the Muslims [as in] the 13th century. And this is their function."
"They have little insignias, these coins they pass among each other, which are crusader coins," he continued. "They have insignia that reflect the whole notion that this is a culture war. … Right now, there’s a tremendous, tremendous amount of anti-Muslim feeling in the military community."
Hersh relayed that he had recently spoken with "a man in the intelligence community... somebody in the joint special operations business" about the downfall of Zine el-Abidine Ben Ali in Tunisia. "He said, ‘Oh my God, he was such a good ally.'"
"Tunisia's going to change the game," Hersh added later. "It's going to scare the hell out of a lot of people."
Moving to Pakistan, where Hersh noted he had been friendly with Benazir Bhutto, the journalist told of a dinner meeting with Asif Ali Zardari, the late prime minister’s husband, in which Hersh said the Pakistani president was brutally disdainful of his own people.
Hersh described a trip he made to Swat, where the Pakistani military had just dislodged Taliban insurgents who had taken over the scenic valley, a traditional vacation area for the urban middle class. Hersh said he asked Zardari about the tent cities he saw along the road, where people were living in harsh, unsanitary conditions.
“Well, those people there in Swat, that’s what they deserve,” the Pakistani president replied, according to Hersh. Asked why, Hersh said Zardari responded, “Because they supported the Taliban.” (Note: Hersh's conversation is not recounted in his 2009 New Yorker article on Pakistan's nuclear weapons, presumably because it coudn't be verified.)
The veteran journalist also alleged that the CIA station chief in Islamabad, who was recently recalled after his name surfaced in Pakistani court documents and in the lively Pakistani press, had actually been fired for disputing the plans of Gen. David Petraeus, who took over the Afghan war last summer after General McChrystal was summarily dismissed.
"When Petraeus issued a very optimistic report about the war in December that he gave to the president," Hersh said, the station chief "just declared it was bankrupt... internally. He just said ‘This is completely wrongheaded. The policy's wrongheaded.' Off he goes. Out he goes."
"I've given up being disillusioned about the CIA," Hersh said. "They're trained to lie, period. They will lie to their president, they will lie certainly to the Congress, and they will lie to the American people. That's all there is to it."
Hersh was speaking on the invitation of Georgetown University's School of Foreign Service, which operates a branch campus in Qatar.
*Note: Listening to the recording a second time, I believe Hersh said "whackos," not "radicals."
Blake Hounshell has come a cropper
Blake Hounshell comes across as a snarky person of little consequence in an article which is unusually important because of Seymour Hersh's extraordinary and truthful remarks and analysis.
My only question about Hersh's commentary: yes, there is a militant wing of Roman Catholicism which has been highly influential in the American national security community for quite some time, and which includes the Knights of Malta and Opus Dei. But could you please be more specific about which individuals with influence in the Obama administration are members? What are the facts? And are you describing these individuals as "neoconservatives," or did you have any other political blocs and cultural groups in mind when using that term?
I would very much like to see a fully developed book version of this article, laying out all the evidence and particular facts.
Oh: notice how content-free have been all the comments attacking Hersh here. Apparently Sy has gored someone's ox and stirred up their emotions.
Regarding this theme of an anti-Muslim crusade at the highest levels of the American government, Jeremy Scahill reported that a former Blackwater employee alleged that Eric Prince, the founder of Blackwater, "views himself as a Christian crusader tasked with eliminating Muslims and the Islamic faith from the globe," and that Prince's companies "encouraged and rewarded the destruction of Iraqi life."
You know, these issues that Hersh has raised comprise a huge story, and it boggles the mind that anyone associated with Foreign Policy, like Blake Hounshell, would dismiss or ridicule them. What's up with Hounshell's curious tone?
Yes, these are the Right Questions
Good post, Sean McBride. What exactly did Hersh say? His remarks could be absurd or spot on, but we can't tell from Hounshell's slop article.
Eric Prince is a Protestant, as I understand it. So, as you ask, what is the relationship between the Neocons and the assertions Hersh makes about Catholic factions?
Is that too much to ask of a "journalist"?
I do have a big question for Hersh, regarding this:
BEGIN QUOTE
He also charged that U.S. foreign policy had been hijacked by a cabal of neoconservative "crusaders" in the former vice president's office and now in the special operations community.
"What I'm really talking about is how eight or nine neoconservative, radicals if you will, overthrew the American government. Took it over," he said of his forthcoming book. "It's not only that the neocons took it over but how easily they did it -- how Congress disappeared, how the press became part of it, how the public acquiesced."
END QUOTE
This is all makes sense and is clearly the truth. But to which neoconservatives precisely is he referring?
Is he referring to these leading neocons, among many others?
1. Cliff May
2. David Wurmser
3. Douglas Feith
4. Elliott Abrams
5. Eric Edelman
6. Ken Adelman
7. Lewis Libby
8. Michael Ledeen
9. Norman Podhoretz
10. Paul Wolfowitz
11. Richard Perle
12. Robert Kagan
13. William Kristol
What would his list of leading neoconservatives look like? How many of them are primarily associated with the Knights of Malta, Opus Dei, Roman Catholicism and Christianity? How many of them, on the other hand, are leading members of the Israel lobby?
The FPI (Foreign Policy Initiative) -- the latest incarnation of the PNAC (Project for the New American Century) -- has been the lead policy center promoting the Afghan and Afpak Wars. Here are some key members of the FPI: Cliff May, Dan Senor, Danielle Pletka, David Brooks, David Frum, Eliot Cohen, Fred Hiatt, Frederick Kagan, Herbert London, Jennifer Rubin, John Hannah, John Podhoretz, Joshua Muravchik, Ken Pollack, Lewis Libby, Max Boot, Michael Goldfarb, Randy Scheunemann, Reuel Marc Gerecht, Robert Kagan and William Kristol. How many of them are Christian militants and crusaders?
I would love to hear Seymour Hersh address these questions and develop his analysis in much greater depth. Perhaps he has uncovered many new facts about the Global War on Terror that are yet unknown to the general public.
I give Hersh full respect, something I can't give to this columnist. But when reading of Hersh going on a tear I felt like making the joke headline "Seymour Hersh learns to google."
Apparently a large number of the comments come from people who have not seen fit to find definitive proof of this story's truth or falsehood.
That's why people have criticized this article!
The point is that Hounshell doesn't demonstrate any follow-up to substantiate or debunk Hersh's claims. Yet he feels comfortable _assuming_ it's all untrue and crank conspiracy theory. At least that's the clear implication of Hounshell's tone.
I find it interesting that the majority of the comments are supporting Hersh....I have some questions- did you read this article, or the numerous articles from the past few years about Dick Cheney's secret personal death squad, or his monthly bombshells during the Bush administration claiming that a nuclear strike on Iran was imminent....? If you have been following Hersh over the past 6-7 years and still think he is a legitimate journalist, my follow up question is does your psychiatrist know you stopped taking your medication?
So, there is a CATHOLIC plot in the US ARMY (a renowned bastion of Catholicism, of course) aimed at killing and converting all muslims...well, that seems plausible. Is the Vatican in on it too? Do the secret army coins also have magical catholic powers? Seriously, if Hersh even has any sources, they are only trying to discredit him.
This is a joke.
The source article that most referred to is this one. I cannot find text or video of Hersh's speech. Blake Hounshell's article appears to be the main source of this booming echo chamber.
Where is the text of Hersh's speech? Or is interpretation of this speech to be solely mediated by this article.
in response to this seems to say, don't consign Hersch to the nursing home yet. This tweet if his :
I have personally seen/held US Special Ops coins with crusader/Templar imagery. That is not false, as some are alleging
2:42 PM Jan 18th via web
Retweeted by 38 people
jeremyscahill
jeremy scahill
Personally, I found this article to be on a par with the others of Hounshell's. If he doesn't believe something, he trashes it without bothering to prove anything beyond snarky comments that somebody has "lost" it. Last time if I recall it was about Paulson and Wired and Grrenwald, which he dismissed as some kind of petty spitting match when it was about a very integral part of what the government may have been trying to use to build a case against
Assange.
If they brought Hersch out drooling and pinching a nurse, once he got to the podium and started talking, I'd be listening to what he had to say. He's earned that much -- and he may still be in the process of earning. No need for him to coast on past glories yet.
Hersh is a reliable researcher
Of course the coins are real -- otherwise Hersh wouldn't have referred to them. He usually gets his facts in order before opening his mouth -- unlike several of his thoughtless detractors here who have very little interest in facts and who specialize in snark.
Author seems to be the rambling official conspiracy theorist.
While I wasn't there, the comments of Hersh noted make perfectly good sense. If you are going to use character assassination you best back up your claims with something more than just ignorant opinions. I only wish he had added into this mix the obvious demolition of 3 steel framed buildings on 9/11 and the weaponixed anthrax attacks that were falsely used to initiate these illeagal wars of aggression.
BREAKING NEWS! USING THE POWER OF THE INTERNETS, I HAVE UNCOVERED PROOF OF THE EXISTENCE OF THE TOP SECRET JSOC/CATHOLIC DECODER COIN!!!!111!!11oneone!!1
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Challenge_coin?wasRedirected=true
Do these coins have secret catholic powers? Are they used in the waterboarding of Dick Cheney's enemies? Do they transmit orders directly from the pope to his minions in delta force and seal team six, directing them to amass a large fleet in venice and sack Constantinople again? Yes, yes they do. The truth is out there my friends.
The JSOC have a major operating base on Karachi Pakistan thanks to a clever manipulation of then Musharraf during the first years of the War on Terror.
If you know anything about JSOC, they engage in all the covert ops which politicans and governments don't like to talk about, or officially deny to save face. Pakistan has indeed been under a kind of partial 'soft' occupation by JSOC for years now. Spec forces 'advise' Pakistani forces and engage in various 'training' all over. Pakistani airspace is essentially JSOC air space, for all intents and purposes regarding military activity.
The reality is JSOC engage in all kinds of actions, including false flag operations targetting various friendly targets as 'terrorist attacks' in order to initiate various reactions and countermeasures to American military and political interests.
America is a global empire. It has and will act, usually through its military channels, act to undermine so called allies to serve America's various interests, whether short term or long term.
The fact that some or many soldiers and officers use various religious orders and sects to inject moral and spiritual purpose to what are essentially amoral and immoral imperial measures, should be expected.
The reality is: Pakistan has been a 'client state' of America since 1948.
Truman called for arming it against India and the USSR. Eisenhower followed. Since then, America has interfered for various reasons which it deemed more important than the sovereignty, religion, development needs, beliefs interests of the local people. And since Pakistani elites made it easy and became dependent and reliant on America for this relationship - having chalets in Europe and property in America- than this is the norm of the relationship.
Bhutto, Sharif, Musharraf, are all friends of America who have served America in their different ways. Add Zardari to this mix.
It should be expected that when people have control over other people in such a way, they grab for various causes to justify their power, including religious causes. Everyone knows that Christianity has dissipated around teh world EXCEPT for American brands of Christianity. And these brands are uniquely tied to American imperalism.
The largest civil war in history, the Taiping Rebellion in China in the 1850s which killed over 20 million people, was directly tied to American and British missionaries who lend support to a Chinese Christian who rebelled for several years until the British turned against him.
The people of Pakistan are increasingly realizing that they must purge themselves of foreign occupation and any who support them in order to gain true liberation and independence. Until then, they are still trapped by elites who serve the West and are willing to serve up 1000s of their own people, even 100s of 1000s, to serve America's imperial aims.
The monumental scale of America's measures, and the utter amorality of it would either drive men to commit suicide, or to find various religious and spiritual cause for their diabolical deeds.
Seymour Hersh's words are not so far fetched when put in context. True, he hasn't produced hard evidence. But if he has observed them, then he's fairly trustworthy in such matters.
Its the ignorance, myopia, and utter stubborn refusal to accept reality of readers which drive their disbelief. There are many people of various empires who refused to believe warnings until the barbarians (or colonizers or settlers, or enemy) were at the gates.
Read Jeff Sharlet's The Family
Maybe I missed it as I glossed over all the little in-fighting comments, but anyone wondering if Hersh is right about Christian fundys taking over must read Jeff Sharlet's The Family: The Secret Fundamentalism at the Heart of American Power. His history of the movement which started the National Prayer Breakfast is accurate and chilling.
I used to respect Foreign Policy. Now I think they are a bunch of armchair warrior shills, pumping up the latest and greatest war-mongering tactics.
Remember when CNAS and the COIN strategy was all the rage? Yeah, don't hear so much about that now do we?
Shills. And this crap article by Hounshell is just trying to deflect accurate criticisms from COIN's badboy McChrystal.
- mike
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