That's a pretty sad, inaccurate conception of Latin America you have there. Your conception of an ignorant, anarchic South America ruled by wacky, leftist dictators belongs more in American Cold War-era textbooks than in the 21st century. Just because Hugo Chavez or the Castros went on yet another of their shenanigans give you any sound reason to generalize the foreign policy of a 19-country continent.

And while it is true that education is a problem in South America, wan't it Chile who just joined the OECD, the country club of rich and socially equitable nations? Isn't Brazil making steady progress in the PISA and implementing successful measures to improve teacher productivity? As your clearly inaccurate answer shows, having top 200 universities doesn't magically boost the knowledge of all its citizens. In fact, this twisted little standard of yours would put pretty much the whole world -- bar the US, rich Europe, and China/Japan - as nations with "rampant" ignorance.

The world is much dumber than I thought.

But ignorance is pretty rampant in pretty much every single country, but is mitigated marginally (emphasis on that) in those with decent tertiary education.

I don't understand why you put "thrown off their land" in quotation marks....are you insinuating that that's not what happened? Or that because of the Holocaust its OK? What happened/is happening to the Palestinians seems horribly wrong to me--but hey, maybe I'm just ignorant and unable to think critically.

...it is their land after--God said so. I heard it straight from the mouth of God himself (even though God doesn't have a mouth). You didn't? It was on the news in 1948--you should have seen it. God descended from the clouds in stereotypical fashion, and declared "Behold, this nation which in no way follows the Torah or my commandments--a nation founded on blood, thievery, and terrorism--behold! I have blessed ye! Now, kick those damn sand people out of their homes for I COMMAND IT!!!" And ye, all the land was cleansed.

"The League of Nations was created, and it decided to split Palestine into two entities: a JEwish National Homeland west of the Jordan river, where Jews would be invited to return and resettle the land, and an Arab entity east of the Jordan river they called Transjordan, and today called the Kingdom of Jordan."

False. The League of Nations, created a Jewish Homeland (not national) insole Palestine. Palestine is what they referred to as west of the Jordan river

"I suggest those who are uninformed to look up the League of Nations Mandate over Palestine in 1922 and read up on it."

I have and I suggest you quote the passage that supports your absurd claims.

Of course, if what you say were true, there would have been no need for a UN Partition, which as we know Israel accepted. Furthermore, when Israel declared it's independence, it explicitly stated in he letter to the UN that the state would reside within the agreed borders.

May 22 1948 The reply of the Provisional Government of Israel (S/766) to the questions addressed to the “Jewish authorities in Palestine” was transmitted by the acting representative of Israel at the United Nations on May 22.

Question (a): Over which areas of Palestine do you actually exercise control at present over the entire area of the Jewish State as defined in the Resolution of the General Assembly of the 29th November, 1947?

“In addition, the Provisional Government exercises control over the city of Jaffa; Northwestern Galilee, including Acre, Zib, Base, and the Jewish settlements up to the Lebanese frontier; a strip of territory alongside the road from Hilda to Jerusalem; almost all of new Jerusalem; and of the Jewish quarter within the walls of the Old City of Jerusalem. The above areas, outside the territory of the State of Israel, are under the control of the military authorities of the State of Israel, who are strictly adhering to international regulations in this regard. The Southern Negev is uninhabited desert over which no effective authority has ever existed.”

The letter confirms that Israel was aware of the extent of it’s sovereignty. It confirms that Jaffa; Northwestern Galilee, including Acre, Zib, Base, and the Jewish settlements up to the Lebanese frontier; a strip of territory alongside the road from Hilda to Jerusalem; almost all of new Jerusalem; and of the Jewish quarter within the walls of the Old City of Jerusalem and the Southern Negev, were not Sovereign to Israel.

Game Set and Match.

We know your talking points inside out.

"What happened was that between 1882 and 1947, Jews peacefully immigrated back to their historical homeland, and not one inch of private property was taken from anybody."

That happened in 1948.

I've already debunked your absurd claims about the League of Nations giving the land West of the Jordan River to Israel. If you knew anything about the British Mandate, you wouldn't waste our time with such drivel.

The region to the West of teh Jordan River was under a different set of rules of the mandate.

"Unfortunately, there were clerics such as the Grand Mufti who began a war against JEwish immigration that lasted from 1921 to 1948, and which culminated in the invasion of the UN-authorized JEwish state by 5 Arab armies determined to throw the JEws into the sea."

False. The attack by the Arab states was not an invasion of Israel, but an attack of Israeli forces in Palestine, of which Israel was longer a part of.

Israel expelled 750,000 Palestinians, having already removed 300,000 of them between November 1947 and May 1948.

"The ARabs lost the war, and then retaliated by proceeding to force 856, 000 Jews out of the Muslim countries, who left behind far more land and properties than did the 710,000 Palestinian Arabs."

This is also false Apart from a handful of cases, there was no ethnic cleansing of Jews from Arab states. In fact, this articel appeared in Haaretz to debunk this myth:

"The WOJAC figure who came up with the idea of "Jewish refugees" was Yaakov Meron, head of the Justice Ministry's Arab legal affairs department. Meron propounded the most radical thesis ever devised concerning the history of Jews in Arab lands. He claimed Jews were expelled from Arab countries under policies enacted in concert with Palestinian leaders - and he termed these policies "ethnic cleansing." Vehemently opposing the dramatic Zionist narrative, Meron claimed that Zionism had relied on romantic, borrowed phrases ("Magic Carpet," "Operation Ezra and Nehemiah") in the description of Mizrahi immigration waves to conceal the "fact" that Jewish migration was the result of "Arab expulsion policy." In a bid to complete the analogy drawn between Palestinians and Mizrahi Jews, WOJAC publicists claimed that the Mizrahi immigrants lived in refugee camps in Israel during the 1950s (i.e., ma'abarot or transit camps), just like the Palestinian refugees.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=329736

The Mizrahi Jews in fact resent beign referred to as refugees.

"The organization's claims infuriated many Mizrahi Israelis who defined themselves as Zionists. As early as 1975, at the time of WOJAC's formation, Knesset speaker Yisrael Yeshayahu declared: "We are not refugees. [Some of us] came to this country before the state was born. We had messianic aspirations." "

So there was only one refugee problem, and that was created by the Zionists as per the plans they had laid out since the time of Hertzl.

No Jewish state could ever have emerged without ethnic cleansing and that is precisely how Israel emerged with a Jewish majority.

Coincidence? Not a chance.

"Tiny Israel absorbed most of the JEwish refugees from the ARab countries"

That's because tiny Israel needed them to create a Jewish majority and to build a Jewish state.

Isral has subsequently become a racist , apartheid and intolerant society,

and dropped your rediclous claim about the League of Nations creating a Jewish National Homeland West of the Jordan river.

"As I stated, the League of Nations placed a Mandate over Palestine and gave it to Britain to administer. The purpose of the Mandate was to reestablish a "Jewish NATIONAL Home." Note the words Jewish and National and Home."

That was one of the purposes of the madate among others, but you will notice that there is no mention of giving all the land from Jordan River to the sea to create this homeland. It was to create the homeland IN PALESTINE.

Nor is there any mention fo a state.

"However, many of the Arabs in WESTERN Palestine also refused to accept the provisions of the Mandate, and began to resist Jewish immigration to western Palestine as well."

Many Zionists did too.

"THis led to 25 years of struggle, until the British finally gave up and withdrew, throwing the problem into the lap of the brand new United Nations, which had replaced the now defunct League of Nations."

False. The British withdrew because the mandate ended and because they were being attacked by British terrorist groups.

You'll recall the bombing fo the King david Hotel for example.

"On November 29th, 1947 the UN voted on another compromise to split WESTERN Palestine into two states: a "JEwish State" and an "Arab state" (see UNGAR 181)."

That is when the Ziinsits began expellign Palestinians, with Zioinist forces already on the offensive.

The workd of historians Ilan Pappe and Benny Morris, plus the records of Sir Richard C Catling (deputy head of the special branch of the Criminal Investigation division in Jerusalem in 1944 and then Assistant Inspector General), revealed that the Jewish Agency provisional government did not accept the Jewish state designated under UN resolution 181 with the intention of abiding by the General Assembly goal of providing a state for two peoples in the land of Palestine. Rather, it sought to use it as a means of gaining control of all the land and ridding it of its indigenous people so far as possible.

"The UN vote came down in favor of partition, and the JEws happily accepted, whereas the Arabs refused to accept the results of the vote, and chose to go to war to drive the Jews into the sea."

False. The Arabs did not attack until Israel declared independence in May 1948, and they only in Palestine, not Israel.

I don't know how many times this needs to be repeated, but no state in the world recognizes the State of Israel as the Jewish state, nor is any state obliged to.

But to create a homeland where Jews would co-exit with Palestinians.

There was no mention in any of the articles that mentions anything about a majority. That was the goal of the Zionist foudners.

Even with the large influx of Jewish immigrats to Palestine, the Palestinians were stil a majority and the Zionsit founders were openly discussing the Arab problem and how to solve it.

There was no Jewish sovereignty over the Land of ISrael to restore because:

a) there was no such thing as the land of Israel
b) no Jewish Jewish sovereignty had ever existed, becasue there was no cuh concept in 639 AD.

"And naturally there were those among the 644,000 non-Jews who were in opposition to having 9 million Jews return to their ancient homeland, and that is understandable up to a point."

Actually, even the founders recognized that there was no way to accomodate all Jews, and they

Ben-Gurion knew that Palestine was not capable of taking all the Jewish refugees from Europe. The Zionist Agencies utilized selective immigration there, rejecting those Jews it did not want. In other words, if the Jewish Agency or the screening groups thought you might end up being a burden to the Yishuv, or if you didn’t possess a skill they wanted, your application was denied. (Britain set the number of immigrants allowed, but the Zionists were given the choice of who to give the immigration certificates to.) And if you got injured in Palestine, and became a burden, you ran the risk of being sent home.

"At some point you have to accept reality and come to a peaceful resolution."

No one has to accept a settlement that results on their opressions, disposession and expulsion. That's the whole reason the world went to war in 1940 and the reason why the world created the Geneva Conventions.

Every other country in the world has left the 19th century behind them, because they all understand that the age of colonization and empire-building is Dead And Buried.

All but one.

One country that - uniquely - thinks that because it missed out on the 19th century it is now entitled to play catch-up.

You might lament the fact that Israel missed out on the 19th century, but Israel has agreed to the Geneva Conventions, which forbids ethnic cleansing.

"Number of Arabs in western Palestine in 1947: 1.2 million.
Number of Arabs in western Palestine today: over 5 million"

Ethnic cleansing does not havbe to include genocide. Ethnic cleansing can take place without a reduction in population.

A map of Palestine (1947 compared to today) shows how ethnic has taken place.

"Number of Jews in Muslim countries in 1947: 900,000
Number of Jews in Muslim countries today: 50,000"

A result of migration to Israel and Western states. These figures have nothing to do with ethnic cleansing.

"What can we conclude from the raw numbers? I leave it to the reader."

Nothing, because ethnic cleansing is about land seizure, not population counts.

"First of all the FALSE claim that the Zionist program of Jewish immigration and restoring the Jewish state could not be carried out without having to ethnically cleanse Arabs out is 100% FALSE!"

Spin all you want JGARBUZ, but the Zionist founders were very explicit about this.

The socialist Zionist Hahman Syrkin, the ideological founder of Socialist Zionism, proposed in a pamphlet, titled "The Jewish Question and the Socialist Jewish State" published in 1898 , that:

"Palestine is thinly populated, in which the Jews constituted today 10 percent of the population, must be evacuated for the Jews." (Expulsion Of The Palestinians, p. 7)

Israel Zangwill, who had visited Palestine in 1897 and came face-to-face with the demographic reality. He stated in 1905 in a speech to a Zionist group in Manchester that:

"Palestine proper has already its inhabitants. The pashalik of Jerusalem is already twice as thickly populated as the United States, having fifty-two souls to the square mile, and not 25% of them Jews ..... [We] must be prepared either to drive out by the sword the [Arab] tribes in possession as our forefathers did or to grapple with the problem of a large alien population, mostly Mohammedan and accustomed for centuries to despise us." (Expulsion Of The Palestinians, p. 7- 10, and Righteous Victims, p. 140)

Since the Jews in Palestine (Yishuv) could not become a majority as of 1948, Zionists resorted to compulsory population transfer (Ethnic Cleansing) to solve what they referred to by the "Arab demographic problem". To hide their basic goals and intentions, they have concocted the myth that Palestinians left their homes, farms, and businesses on the orders of their leaders, click here to read our response to this argument.

In 1920 there were over a million non-Jews, mostly Arabs living in Palestine. Jews were outnumered 5:1 and of the 9 million Jews living in the rest of the whole world, only a small percentage migrated to Israel.

"Today, 90 years later, over 5 million Arabs and nearly 6 million JEws live inside the SAME SIZE TERRITORY! The amount of land has not increased, and yet the number of Arabs living there has managed to increase 7-fold, and the number of Jews living there 100 fold."

That's becasue there are another 3 million Palestinian erfugees living in refugee camps outside of Palestine - refugees who were expelled by Israel.

"Almost as many Jews live in Tel Aviv alone as all the Arabs who lived in all of western Palestine in 1920!"

False. the ratio was at least 3:1 in favor of Palestinians.

"Tel Aviv was built on empty sand dunes in 1909."

False. The region of Tel Aviv was richly cultivated at the time.

"Most of the Jewish towns and villages established before 1948, were established either on empty lands, or on lands legally purchased for hard cash from Arab and other landowners."

Some of it was, but much was fraudulently

"It was the Arab aggression, in violation of the UN Charter, in 1948 that created the two refugee problems, as I initially stated."

False.

Israel violated the UN Charter, not the Arabs. When the Arabs attacked the Israeli foreces in Palestine, they were acting legally, which is why there was no UN Resoluition concemning the action.

It was Israel that violated the UN Charter by expilling teh pipualtino and refusing to allow the refugees to return, even though they agreed to do so as a condition of Israel's membership at the UN.

"Within hours after the UN vote in 1947, Arabs were rioting and burning JEwish shops in Jerusalem and other towns and cities."

Read history and you'll ind there was a civil war going on. Israeli forces were already on the move, expelling Palestinians cn conducting terror attacks.

Israel only partially accepted the partition, becasue they rejected the most important part - the borders.

"But at the very moment of the UNGA Vote in 11/29/'47 the Arabs states openly declared that if the JEws declared their state, they were going to go in and destroy it!"

False. The Arab League informed the UN that they were porotecting Palestine (what not including Israel ) from the illegal presence of Israeli forces.

"If you promised to invade my house and to kill me, would I be wrong to put barbed wire around it to try to stop you? Would that be aggression?"

if you invaded by mouse, raped my wife, and killed my children, and then forced me to live on the street, is what aggression?

"Tel Aviv was built on empty sand dunes in 1909."

Sure, check out these sand dunes.

http://lawrenceofcyberia.blogs.com/.a/6a00d834522bcd69e2010536d23428970b-pi
http://lawrenceofcyberia.blogs.com/.a/6a00d834522bcd69e2010536cb0ca3970b-pi

and Jesus really did exist (which he didn't), then why kill him?

>False. The British withdrew because the mandate ended and because they were being attacked by British terrorist groups.

The British abandoned the Mandate because they had no good ideas about how to balance their obligations to the Jews under the Mandate and their political commitments to the Arabs. They renounced the Mandate first, and then withdrew their troops when it expired in response to the Partition Resolution (UNGA 181).

And, of course, there were no British terrorist groups operating in the Mandate. NeoLeft will claim he meant Jewish, but the fact is that Arab gangs were already moving about the country attacking Jewish villages, often with the assistance of the British.

Incidentally, in the period leading up to Israel's independence, Britain retained security control over the Mandate's territory. This is the period in which he claims the future Israel ethnically cleansed 300,000 Arabs. He should tell us how this is possible with the British military in control. What actually happened was that the Arab elite realized war was coming and decided to sit it out in Cairo or Beirut. Lower-class Arabs, seeing their self-styled leaders departing, concluded that was the thing to do. Finally, as reported by Walt and Mearsheimer, Arab military leaders called on the remaining Arab peasants to get out of their way so they could conquer the territory allotted to Israel, after which they could return and take the Jews' property. This was the primary reason for the departure of the Arabs.

Anyone aware of the map drawn by the partition plan will recognize that its territorial assignments was unworkable. Both Israel and the never-established Arab state were to consist of three sections connecting at two points where the other side's territories were connected at the same points. These points were guaranteed to be the source of unending problems had the original plan been implemented. Israel's initial efforts were directed at establishing contiguity. However much others might dislike this, it was the right policy.

The weight of the future lies with Islamic nations eh? Not to be harsh but the majority of Muslim nations are amongst the very worst no matter how you measure them. Often unstable, often autocratic, poor quality of life, terrible education systems (that pump out more 'experts' in Islamic studies than every other degree put together) and a distinct lack of innovation. There are only two with serious potential and those are Indonesia and Turkey.

I would also have put Malaysia as an example of a successful Muslim country. At least it is more succesful than either Turkey and Indonesia, both in economic and political terms. In the World Competitive Report 2010 it was called the most competitive among all developing nations.

As for lack of innovation in the Middle Eastern countries, that's mainly due to their oil wealth. Since they can manage to have high trade surpluses just by selling crude oil, they see no point in developing heavy industries on their own. In a lesser extent, this also happens in Norway, a country that is scientifically far less innovative than its cousin, Sweden, mainly because industrial innovation is not necessary for Norway to keep its economy heated.

But that doesn't mean Middle Eastern countries do not invest in services of quality, just as Norway's services are not inferior to Sweden's . In educational achievement, the Middle East is not far behind Israel. On the 2009 PISA test, Qatar had a better score than Israel. And Israel itself had one of the five worst performances among countries with OECD-membership.

"Not to be harsh but the majority of Muslim nations are amongst the very worst no matter how you measure them."

While true, must of that is doe to the fact that this is how the West like it. It's hard to steal resources from stable educated and economically independent societies.

"There are only two with serious potential and those are Indonesia and Turkey."

And Iran, Malaysia, Qatar, the UAE, etc.

"These guys got elected by ignorant populations and it isn't getting better."

No, there guys got elected by populations who are sick of being exploited by the US and the IMF and World Bank, and having US puppet dictators putting foreign interests before those of their own populations.

"One reason that these guys cuddle up with Middle Eastern, autocratic, medrassa supporting regimes, 80% of which think they are required to kill anyone who converts from Islam, is that they believe that it assists in giving their own bids to become dictators a bit of juice."

You have it backwards. These guys in power because they have been elected in democratic elections, not because they seized power through a military coup. I know how you guys on the right hate it when people with brown faces actually exercise their democratic right.

"The conditions created by the elitist classes combined with years of crap US foreign policy have fostered a batch of would be dictators who are going to be trouble."

You almost got it. The conditions created by the elitist classes combined with years of crap US foreign policy have fostered a batch of would be democratic leaders who are going to be trouble. Latin American dictators are soooo 80's.

Israel has nothign but contempt for what other states think or believe

Arafat recognized Israel 20 years ago and all that achieved was to get him killed. Abbas has confirmed this and said that Israel can call itself whatever it likes so long as it does so from within the 1967 borders.

22 Arab States have singed a peace initiative, which not only recognizes Israel, but proposes to normalize relations with Israel and eh Arab world.

In essence, the Arab Peace Initiative offers Israel everything they have demanded and how did Israel receive it?

they rejected it, which proves that the demand to be recognizes is nothing but a ruse and a stalling tactic to buy time.

Netanyahu has since backed away from the demand for Israel to be recognizes as the Jewish state. Indeed, Israel cannot be a Jewish state so long as 20% of it's population is not Jewish.

No future Israeli government will ever agree to any Palestinian state because they simply do not want one.

The world is fast losing patience with Israel and is taking matters into their own hands.

That's because no state in teh world has a right to exist, nor does any state claim such a right.

I dare you to name one state (other than Israel) that has ever claimed such a right. What states did Russia or Germany accept had a "right to exist" JGARBUZ?

"SO the Saudi "peace initiative" and all of that means NOTHING to me!"

Well, I hate to break it to you JGARBUZ, but no one is asking you. Of course, if the recognition of the RIGHT of a JEWISH STATE to exist is so important, then I'm sure you're be happy for Israel to return the favor and recognize the right of a Palestinian state to exist.

That would be a win-win right?

Then why is The Israel Project, hiring so many people for PR potions?

http://www.theisraelproject.org/site/c.hsJPK0PIJpH/b.2607243/k.678B/Employment_Opportunities.htm

"America is a weak reed, played out, and exhausted by just a little bit of strenuous exercise."

And the state of Israel has played it's part by sucking every last drop of blood it could from it's host.

"Israel is small, but hard as diamond and will not crack under Islamic assault!"

Really?

According to Netenyahu, merely extending the so called "freeze" on settlements would tear the government apart.

during a recent meeting between an Israeli diplomat (Attorney Yitzhak Molcho) and a Palestinian delegation, the Saeb Erekat handed the Molcho a plan of the detailed and updated Palestinian peace plan. Molcho wouldn't even touch it, and explained that if he did so, “the government will fall.”

"Israel is not soft and flabby."

I'm afraid it is. Israel is no longer the fit and lean state it was in 1967. Too much of the good life has made Israel soft and lazy, which was made apparent in the 2006 war, where they were humiliated by Hezbollah.

"Israel kicked Arab and Soviet butt in '67."

and then Israel had it's butt kicked in 1973 by Egypt, needing the US to come to it's rescue.

"When Iran goes nuclear and gets control over oil prices in the Middle East, and the US needs Israeli help, Israel by then will have developed its own offshore natural gas fields, and will be energy independent."

As Jeffrey Goldberg pointed out in his Atlantic article, the reason Israel fears an Iran nuke is because it would spark an exodus of people from Israel.

Israel will continue to pay $8 a gallon for gasoline because the gas fields of it's coast (which also belong to Gaza and Lebanon), have no recoverable oil.

The gas deposits won't save Israel. They would eliminate the demographic threat to Israel, nor will they alleviate Israel's impending water shortages.

1. The problem Israel had in Lebanon in 2006 arose from a confused strategy that sought to prevail with air power alone. There was never any prospect that this would work and I am certainly looking forward to Olmert's explanation of why he adopted that approach. There is no way to know what would have happened had he had a more serious strategy that recognized the need for a ground invasion from the start.

2. There is a difference between a state and its government. Israel as a state is stronger than it has ever been, even as its government continues to be beset by structural and political problems. What is needed is for the leaders of each party to put their personal objectives second to national objectives and this problem should be simple to solve.

3. America is in a weakened state today not because of foriegn policy problems but because of domestic ones. The share of outlays going to defense and other foreign relations activities is about half what it was fifty years ago, while the share of outlays for mandatory programs has increased by a factor of about five. Government-endorsed overconsumption is the problem in America, and that has no obvious connection with whatever foreign policy America conducts, except that it encourages a trade deficit.

4. Israel is making strides toward introducing electric vehicles. Given its size, the limitation on battery storage is a smaller problem there than it is here and the availability of natural gas to fuel electric generation will result in cheaper costs for transportation. Success in Israel may lead the way to success elsewhere, making Israel a strategic ally for economic and technological reasons.

5. The "Arab Peace Plan" is anything but. It contains provisions that no Israeli could accept, including what the Arabs call the "right of return," a concept that has existed for no other refugee group in history. The "Arab Peace Plan" was presented as non-negotiable, and thus isn't even intended to provide a starting point for negotiations. It is basically a ruse to fool the public into believeing the Muslims have abandoned the three "no's" of 1967 Khartoum: no negotiation, no recognition. no peace. If it is intended as anything more, they should remove the "non-negotiable" aspect and we can see what happens.

6. It is the Muslim side that should be thinking through the consequences of not reaching an agreement now. Given the march of synthetic biology, eventually someone will engineer a microbe that pulls carbon out of the atmosphere and manufactures hydrocarbons. At the point, not only will the West be free of oil blackmail, but the Muslim world will be left without much of an economy. Maybe it will take twenty years; maybe it will happen tomorrow. Muslim leaders concerned about their people will have to have made their peace with the rest of humanity by then or disaster will follow.

omg that's hilarious. Israelis "liberated" Palestine from foreign occupation. lol

"What happened after 638 AD, was that the Jews there were turned into dhimmis, or second class citizens, Islamized, taxed with the jizya, marginalized and ARabized. One thing we can all agree on is that Jesus was not an Arab!"

Are you seriously going to make the argument that the Hebrews had a permanent land deed from 638AD? Why did they bother to have the San Remo Conference and the Balfour Declaration?

"He knew not one word of Arabic! He was born in Judea, and supposedly the descendant of the most famous Judean King David."

David only exists in the Bible.

"Yes, Zionism was born to liberate Jewish lands from foreign occupation"

False. Zionism was born to create a homeland for Jewish people. The location of which was yet to be decided.

"...as well as freeing the JEwish nation from a long and despicable exile, and to return them to their downtrodden homeland. No apologies should be made for this."

Please, that's just an Old Testament fairy tale. The Palestinians are the descendants of the ancient Hebrews who converted to Islam. The ancient Hebrews were born and lived in pagan Arabia with their semitic pagan half-brothers and half-sisters (who later converted to islam).

That's the (big) difference between a European Jew and a Mizrahi Jew.In other words, the original Jews were Arabs. And just because you deny history and usurp another people's doesn't make you blood-related to Abraham, that great old Arabian sage of the great Arabian desert.

Hebrew and Judaism was imported into Palestine.
So was Christianity and English.

Even if you believe the Old Testament stories about the Hebrews conquering the land, bear in mind that that Jericho and Jerusalem already existed.

"If "Palestinians" are indigenous, why do not speak an ancient language, like Hebrew, which is a Canaanite language?"

Arabic originates from Old Aramaic, which like Hebrew, is a Semitic language.

Jews never forgot their ancient Canaanite language called Hebrew! We made sure to preserve it in our prayer books so that we would not lose it forever.

"Even if many "Palestinians" are descendants of Jews, they have joined the Ishmaelite tribes and adopted their ways."

So I take it your argument then comes down to the messianic belief that God gave the land to the Jews, and that those that turned away from Judaism gave up their claims to it?

That's well and good, except for he fact that the Bible is a piece of fiction.

"They are like Cherokees who have joined the Apaches. They have gone off the reservation by joining up with the Arabs who are foreign occupiers of Jewish lands."

So the are lesser mortals is that it?

Do you Hasbarats ever listen to yourselves? You sound like a cult. How can you expect to be taken seriously?

"The Quran doesn't even mention Jerusalem once!"

The city of Jerusalem is known in Arabic as Al-Quds or Baitul-Maqdis (”The Noble, Sacred Place”). Jerusalem was the first place that Muslims bowed towards during daily prayer. It was later replaced by Mecca, but I can’t remember how much later. It is an extraordinarily important place in the Islamic religion. it is not just ’some mosque’ located there.

The fact that Jerusalem is mentioned in the Torah doesn't make the Torah true. London is mentioned in the last book of Harry Potter, but that doesn't mean Harry Potter is real does it?

"The Land of ISrael is the Jewish tribal homeland, the center of our Bible, and the only reason why Abraham left his comfortable home in Ur to go traipsing into Canaan."

A fairy tale f you believe it, but in any case, Abraham was an invader and took the land by force from the original inhabitants, committing genocide, killing women and children.

Some things never change do they?

"For Jews, peace in our homeland would be more than enough."

If that were true, there would be no settlements or occupation.

Other than the hearsay of a few religious books?

"Yes, the Jews partially liberated their historic homeland"

No they took it by force, in violation of the agreements they made and in violation of international law.

In fact, the Zionists broke their oaths according to the Talmud.

"Arab occupation. Jesus was not an Arab."

Didn't Jesus forsake Judaism? Was he off the reservation, as you put it?

"What are Arabs doing in the Jewish homeland anyway?"

You already know that answer. They were Jews who converted to Islam. They are the original Jews.

BTW. What were the Jews doing in Canaan?

Israel refers to this as a "PR Problem" or "delegitimization". It is why Israel is becommingincreasingly isolated and ramping up it's PR campaign.

The Bible is fiction. Ben Gurion recongnized that the Palestinians were indigenous to the land and had an inspereable connection to it.

"Israeli hasbara has been consistent all along, not like Arab propaganda."

Consistent but false, but they are falling apart and being exposed by the day. This is why Netenyahu has extended duration under which formerly classified documens, which were suposed to be made public, because in his words, revealing their contents would be dmagaing to Israel.

The muyth of Israel's creation was exposed by Benni Morris and Illan Pappe.
The myth of the 1967 war was exposed by Menachem Begin, Ytzak Rabin and other Israeli leaders since.
The myth of Camp David was exposed by Shlomo Ben Ami, the fomer foreign minister at the time.

"Jews claim sovereignty over the land because (a) we were the only people who actually had independent states in that land in ancient times"

That's not why Israel was created, and there was no such thing as independent states in ancient times. In fact, there was no such thing as the state.

"(2) the League of Nations upheld our claim and gave it a legal imprimatur under the 1922 Mandate; (3) the UN authorized a "Jewish State" in that land in 1947."

False. The League of Nations never made such a ruling. In fact, the UN authorized a "Jewish Homeland", not a state in Palestine within the borders laid out by the partition and Israel accepted these borders.

"Jerusalem was never an Arab capital, and has been majority Jewish for the last 160 years."

Palestine has been majority Palestinian for over a millenia.

"Nonetheless, most Jews have accepted in principle the right of the Arabs to have yet a second Palestinian Arab state"

However the Israeli government has not.

"But even on this the Arabs refuse to reciprocate! "

False again. The arab lLeague has offered to noramlize relations with Israel as well as recognize Israel, but Israel has rejected the offer.

But without producing new evidence to support his new position.

"He admits that his earlier "revisionist" works were overstated."

So some extent and he did that to gain favor in Israel and obtain tenure. Obviously he needed the money.

" He is most courageous to finally get honest, because there is more money to be made peddling revisionist clap-trap to the vast Muslim world than telling the truth and not selling so many books to the Muslims as before. "

Really? Do you have evidence that Morris made more money while peddling his previous position as oposed to his new one?

Is Morris suddenly impoverished?

"As for population demographics in "Palestine," the fact is that most scholars state that in Roman times in the first century, roughly 3 million Jews lived in Judea."

And by the 19th century, only 50,000 remained while most converted to Islam.

"However, in all of the 14 centuries of Muslim domination, the Arab population in "Palestine" NEVER even exceeded 1/5th that number UNTIL the Zionist Jews began to return."

False. The Palestinian population reached 1 million in 1900 and the poppulatino would have continued to grow had they not been expelled.

"Under Muslim domination, the land was mostly stagnant and mired in poverty"

False. As the Zionist counders observed, all but the desert regions were cultivated.

In 1891 Ahad Ha'Am opened many Jewish eyes to the fact the Palestine was not empty, but populated with its indigenous people when he wrote:

"We abroad are used to believe the Eretz Yisrael is now almost totally desolate, a desert that is not sowed ..... But in truth that is not the case. Throughout the country it is difficult to find fields that are not sowed. Only sand dunes and stony mountains .... are not cultivated." (Righteous Victims, p. 42)

Israel Zangwill, who had visited Palestine in 1897 and came face-to-face with the demographic reality. He stated in 1905 in a speech to a Zionist group in Manchester that:

"Palestine proper has already its inhabitants. The pashalik of Jerusalem is already twice as thickly populated as the United States, having fifty-two souls to the square mile, and not 25% of them Jews ..... [We] must be prepared either to drive out by the sword the [Arab] tribes in possession as our forefathers did or to grapple with the problem of a large alien population, mostly Mohammedan and accustomed for centuries to despise us." (Expulsion Of The Palestinians, p. 7- 10, and Righteous Victims, p. 140)

NeoLeft claims that Abraham was an Arab. He is demonstrably wrong. What the Bible tells us about him enables him to be dated to around 1700 BCE. The same details make it clear that they originated at about this time, which is nearly two thousand years before the Arab people came into existence. What's more, both the Bible and Arab lore make Abraham the father of Ishmael, who is the progenitor of the Arabs for both peoples. NeoLeft is in effect claiming that Abraham was his own son's descendant, which is biologically more than passingly strange.

NeoLeft also rejects any Jewish connection with the Land of Israel. That is standard among the Taqiyya squad, but that connection is readily demonstrable: the existence of Western civilization as we know it depends on it. I'm pretty sure Western civilization exists, after all, if it didn't, people like NeoLeft wouldn't hate it, or would they?

Are some Palestinian Arabs descended from Jews who were forced to convert to Islam, as NeoLeft claims? Undoubtedly so, but if there was no prior Jewish connection to this territory, how could this be? Perhaps those Palestinians should consider reverting to their ancestral religion? Would that be acceptable to him?

NeoLeft and other who push the "Palestinian narrative" are figures right out of Orwell's 1984; he must work for the Ministry of Truth.

http://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/1581

Don't provide links to discredited tabloids like the Weekly Standard, or far right wing blogs like Commentary Magazine

You have opened this blog up to the light of truth. Here are the links to just a few articles on Hugo's anti-semitism which include his raid on a Jewish elementary school.

Everyone should feel free to google "Hugo's raid on Jewish school" . There are hundreds of articles on this from all segments of the political spectrum. Thanks again for being one of Hugo's ass-clowns.

Evebn the WSJ articel is just a re-print of the articel from Commentary Magazine, which is replete with lies, such as the claim that Chavez has links to FARC, which has long been debunked.

Among other lies in the article:

1. That Chávez alone among world leaders if supporting Tehran's right to pursue nuclear technology. Even the US government has acknowledged Iran has such rights.

2. Blaming the government for anti Semitic graffiti

3. The claim that there is such as Hezbollah in Latin America

None of the allegations have any sources or links to original reports. It is sloppy, lazy and unprofessional reporting intended to appeal to right wing zealots who are not interested in such details.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/005/903jhsjt.asp

http://www.commentarymagazine.com/viewarticle.cfm/hugo-ch-vez-s-jewish-problem-11455

http://www.forward.com/articles/12500/

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121685054638578771.html

http://txlady706.wordpress.com/2010/05/05/venezuela-the-government-of-hugo-chavez-is-reminiscent-of-nazi-germany-jews-targeted-in-similar-fashion/

http://templarpanama.blogspot.com/2010/05/hugo-chavez-government-anti-semitic.html

"Besides, US vs. Arab League is hardly a fair fight."

Yeah, one of them is bankrupt after all.

After all JGARBUZ, there would be no Israel today were it not for the Lloyd Geourge and the Balfour Declaration.

"Before WWI, there were no Arab states, as the entire Middle East was the Turkish Ottoman empire, except for Persia."

Irrelevant. States are a Western invention and the states that were created were done sone along arbitrary borders that suited Britain.

"Imagine if the western countries, such as the US, Canada, Australia, Argentina, etc., had created an OWEC, or organization of WHEAT exporting countries to control the price of bread in the world? Instead, we give our surplus wheat away to feed many of the poorer Arabs in exchange for what....love?"

That's precisely whatexists today. The price of wheat is set by massive subsidied which pay farmers to durmp large amounts of grain into the sea or burn it to maintain the price.

"Today, the West send about a $$$TRILLION dollars a year to OPEC states for their oil."

Yes, it's called trade JGARBUZ. They have something we want and we pay for it. we don't just send money to OPEC.

"And at least some of that money goes to finance terror and war upon ourselves and on Israel."

Israel and the US are addicted to war. Both states are built around their militaries.