Posted By Blake Hounshell Share

Critics of the Obama administration's approach to Middle East peace, a group that includes just about everyone who is paying attention, say that focusing on Israeli settlements for the last 2 years -- as opposed to "core issues" -- was the key mistake that hindered potential progress in other areas.

Instead, these folks say, Obama & co. should have focused on borders, because once the Israelis and Palestinians agreed on the outlines of a future Palestinian state, it would be clear what was a "settlement" and what was merely a suburb of Jerusalem.

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu put himself in this camp Monday, dismissing settlements as a "marginal" issue and calling instead for negotations to focus on -- you guessed it -- "core issues."

"To reach peace, we need to discuss the issues that are really hindering peace, the question of recognition, security, refugees and, of course, many other issues," he reportedly said in a speech just hours before meeting U.S. envoy George Mitchell.

One way to read those remarks is that Netanyahu is ready to roll up his sleeves. More likely, he has no intention of meeting U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton's demand to get serious and lay his cards on the table. Note that he did not mention borders at all. Instead, he appears to be reiterating his position that the Palestinians must explicitly recognize Israel as a Jewish state, which they refuse to do, that Israel needs to have control of the Jordan Valley, another nonstarter for the Palestinians, and that the Palestinians need to give up the "right of return" (this one is more reasonable) before he'll even think about trading land for peace.

In other words, don't expect the new, settlement-free U.S. approach to yield any more progress than the old one. What's more, even if the talks did focus on borders, where the parties are supposedly closer together, it wouldn't take very long for them to come back to areas where they're further apart... namely settlements and Jerusalem. Israel won't freeze the former, and Netanyahu has said he won't divide the latter, while Palestinians claim East Jerusalem as their future capital.

The lesson here is that it's devlishly complicated to jerry-rig negotiations to avoid the tough topics, especially when neither side seems especially eager to do a deal. One can come up with all kinds of sophistry justifying one U.S. tactic or another, but if Israeli and Palestinian leaders aren't serious, and aren't feeling pressure from their own publics to make peace, then nothing will work.

 

PELLAM

11:42 AM ET

December 13, 2010

There Are Many Core Issues

It is presumptuous for the author to decide what issues are important to Israel and what are not. Recognition as the state for the Jewish people is every bit as vital an issue as settlements, notwithstanding scoffing by those more sympathetic to the Arab position. As far as Israel controlling the Jordan Valley, I believe that is also a mandate of the spunky little king, Jr. of Jordan. The right of return is clearly a non-starter and is illustrative Arab intransigence. The bottom line is that there will be a Palestinian state when the following occurs"

1) Recognition of Israel as the state of the Jewish people by all of the Muslim nations.

2) Agreement by said nations to live in peace with the Jewish state.

3) Dropping the ROR demand.

When those things happen there will be peace.

 

JKLAIRWIN

9:27 PM ET

December 13, 2010

Hasbara silliness

1)And what does that make all the non-Jewish citizens of Israel? And the state of which Jews: ethnic?, religious? converted? by whom? political? ....
2)All of the Palestinian state actors , including Hamas, have already agreed to that as have all of the Arab states if Israel will end its illegal occupation.
3)And what does that leave them to negotiate with?
And If Palestine complies with your silly preconditions, and bends over and spreads its cheeks, what next?

 

DEAD EYE

12:10 AM ET

December 14, 2010

Israel first, last, and only.... no other semites allowed

Too bad Saddam Hussein couldn't have held onto Kuwait in 1991.
By now he'd have re-drawn the borders so as to re-include it as Iraq's 19th province.
Iraq could have built 'settlements' and a Apartheid Wall aka Separation Fence - LOL in Kuwaiti territory and around all the best water supplies, etc.

Then maybe the world could decide what international laws are fair for ALL nations to abide by.

As it stands, zionists like Pellam call ridiculous shots and demand that the whole world obey or be called "Anti-Semetic" - the worn out shield of a worn out aggressor.

 

BETZ55

11:35 AM ET

December 14, 2010

Hasbarabot pellam gets it wrong again

Jewish state in mandate Palestine -- is anachronistic in the 21st century. The idea that non-Jews who have lived on the land for generations before the creation of the state of Israel should be relegated to second-class citizenship because they're not Jewish is racist plain and simple.

It is not the responsibility of the the Palestinians or any other Arab state or entity to recognize Israel as a Jewish state. They have recognized Israel's right to exist and that is sufficient.

The demands to be recognized as a Jewish state only began when netty came to power.
It's a red herring 'pre-condition' that is a nonstarter and netty knows it. While netty whines about Palestinians pre-conditions he's got enough up his sleeve to derail his version of 'peace' or did you not see his Oslo video?

You are also failing to remember that not a single Israeli prime minister has ever recognized Palestine's right to exist even while demanding that Palestinians recognize Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oslo_Accords#Remarks_from_Benjamin_Netanyahu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkN1KMLZH4o&feature=player_embedded

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2010/07/18/tricky-bibi/

Before that, Israel demanded to be recognized (while refusing to declare it's borders) and Arafat had already agreed to recognize Israel on paper.

Also, Israel’s refusal to give the 800,000 dispossessed Palestinians the right of return is a huge thorn in its side when claiming to be a democracy.

Under international law, dispossessed people are entitled to return to their land, so if Israel was a functioning democratic nation that followed international law, the majority of it’s citizens would be Arab, and they would have the right to vote. Don't like it? Tough. That's what we call democracy.

Israel has demanded that any 2 state solution denies the Palestinians the right of self determination while the Palestinians have to recognize Israel and jewish only? Rubbish.

And FYI, it was the PLO that first endorsed the 2 state solution, to which Israel responded by invading Lebanon and trying to destroy them,.

Israel is the only State admitted to UN membership on condition that it would be obedient to the world body and be bound, more specifically, by two General Assembly resolutions – of November 1947 for partition of Palestine and of December 1948 enshrining the right of the Palestinian refugees to return to their homes or be satisfied with compensation.

A document on UN record, dated 29 November 1948, reads: "On behalf of the State of Israel, I, Moshe Shertok, Minister for Foreign Affairs, being duly authorised by the State Council of Israel, declare that the State of Israel hereby unreservedly accepts the obligation of the UN Charter and undertakes to honour them from the day when it becomes a Member of the United Nations."

And why should the ROR of refugees (and or compensations) not be included in any peace deal? It's a fundamental issue that Zionists like you either trivialize as non existent, or want to go away, because you can't imagine ever having to address it.

The Israelis don't "give" the Palestinians land - they return land stolen from the Palestinians - or Egypt, or Syria, or Lebanon. Why should the Palestinians have to give anything in return?

Would you give something to a thief in return for him giving you back your stolen property?

As for living in 'peace' with israel. Palestinians have a right to defend themselves against constant terror from Israeli occupiers. It is Israel that violates the sovereignty of all neighboring countries and kills civilians on a daily basis. What makes you think they have no right to self defense and to live in peace from daily harrassment by the ragtag criminals of the IDF, night raids, detentions, and the illegal settler terrorist squats beating, burning, and stealing Palestinian land.

As for your little king Jr. of jordan comment, it is a lie,nothing shows your raciscm any better. King Abdullah has said no such thing.

This is what he said:
There are Israeli politicians who say that publicly Jordan supports a full-fledged Palestinian state, but off-the-record that it is not very excited about having a Palestinian state right there in the Jordan valley and would rather have Israel on the other side of its border. What would you say to them?

"I do not know anybody, any Jordanian, who would say that there is a shred of common sense to that. The true future of our little area is going to be Israeli, Palestinian and Jordanian, and it has to be separate entities. There are also Israelis who want to push the problem to Jordan. An independent Palestinian state allows us a different future of how we move economically, socially and even politically."

http://www.haaretz.com/news/king-abdullah-to-haaretz-jordan-aims-to-develop-nuclear-power-1.210546

Go back to your cubicle at the hasbara institute in your capital Tel Aviv and change your sticky notes.

 

PELLAM

10:12 PM ET

December 13, 2010

Arabist Nonsense Spouted by JKLAIRWIN

"1)And what does that make all the non-Jewish citizens of Israel?
And the state of which Jews: ethnic?, religious? converted? by whom? political? ...."

It makes them the same as non-Greeks in Greece and non-French is France.

"2)All of the Palestinian state actors , including Hamas, have already agreed to that as have all of the Arab states if Israel will end its illegal occupation._

That is utter nonsense, unless the illegal occupation in their mind and yours the illegal occupation includes Tel Aviv.

"3)And what does that leave them to negotiate with?
And If Palestine complies with your silly preconditions, and bends over and spreads its cheeks, what next?"

They get a state.

 

PELLAM

9:59 AM ET

December 14, 2010

PTR-What does Your Peace Look Like

Does it include the right of return of the descendants of Arabs who left Israel proper in the 1940's? If not, does it at least include some form of compensation? If so, does it include compensation for Jews and their descendants kicked out of Arab countries in the 20th century?

Also, what if Hamas refuses to make peace and accept Israel as the state for the Jewish people? Is Israel expected to make land concessions to Fatah without getting a true peace?

Actually, I doubt you would want to see a peace that includes Israel. I believe that you are either an Arab of Muslim taking their hard line, or just some European trying to wash blood off your hands.

 

PELLAM

1:20 PM ET

December 14, 2010

Keep washing your Hands

You are desperate, you know?

 

BETZ55

4:49 PM ET

December 14, 2010

Desperate Pellam

You had some typos:

Keep washing your hands zionist pellam.

 

PELLAM

10:12 AM ET

December 14, 2010

Deadeye

"As it stands, zionists like Pellam call ridiculous shots and demand that the whole world obey or be called "Anti-Semetic" - the worn out shield of a worn out aggressor."

Where did I mention antisemitism? Why is it that Arabists lie and create strawmen? I know why: Because the truth is against them.

BTW, you were right to place "Anti-Semetic" it in quotes, as it is in fact one word. When you hyphenate it you attract all sorts of tin foil hat types who insist it must apply to all Semites.

 

PELLAM

12:11 PM ET

December 14, 2010

Saudi Employee BETZ55 Has it Wrong

The fact that you are enticed by petrodollars to spout Arabist propaganda hardly lends credibility to your screed.

Failure on the part of the Arabs and Muslims to recognize Israel as the state of the Jewish people will grind peace prospects to a halt. Israel as the Jewish State is the raison d'être for its existence, which is why you and your employer resist this small concession.

BTW, how much are the Muslim oil powers going to kick in to pay restituition to Jews kicked out of Arab lands?

 

BETZ55

12:50 PM ET

December 14, 2010

Likud/Shas/AIPAC hasbara idiot pellam has it wrong...again

Typical, classic pro-Israel post. It contains all the hallmarks: it‘s loaded with gratuitous personal insults, makes unsupported assertions about the speaker, and completely ignores my actual argument.

Your rhetorical hasbara strategies fail and will continue to fail. We are not Rachel Corries that you can bulldoze over and kill with insults and personal attacks.

Resorting to character assassination, personal attacks, or unwarranted accusations is always the strategy of cheesy Israeli apologists.

One of the key reasons that the Israeli government and people, like you, have lost so much influence all around the world in recent years, and especially among well-educated sectors of Europe and the United States, is because they tend to rely heavily on “arguments” like the one you just made—personal attacks and smears.

Political movements which are standing on solid ground, and which have facts, reason and morality on their side, do not stoop to these methods. It’s a sign of desperation and general intellectual bankruptcy.

But then, you gotta work with what you have. Logically and morally, if one is an Israel supporter, like you, that‘s not much.

 

PELLAM

1:17 PM ET

December 14, 2010

BETZ55-Saudi Employee Lashes Out Wildly

My, my, aren't you panties in a bunch. You can dish it out but you can't take it. Attack you opponent and then whine at the response.Isn't that a Palestinian affliction, too?

 

PELLAM

1:29 PM ET

December 14, 2010

So Much Hatred

Looking over the posts written by the above Arabists makes me realize that the Arabist movement in Europe has truly been infected with right wing extremists. Assertions like Jews controlling the press are just priceless. Keep it up. It shows the true ugly face of Islamists and their hateful useful idiots.

 

BETZ55

4:47 PM ET

December 14, 2010

'looking over the posts' is not reading them

But then, you gotta work with what you have. Logically and morally, if one is an Israel supporter, like you, that‘s not much.

 

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