Friday, April 30, 2010 - 12:18 PM

Belgium's government is barely functional right now, hampered by a decades long power struggle between Flemish and Wallonian politicians. But the two sides do seem to be able to agree on one thing:
The lower house of parliament voted on Thursday to ban clothes or veils that did not allow the wearer to be fully identified, including the full-body veil, known as the burqa, and the face veil which leaves slits for the eyes, known as the niqab.
A cross-party consensus of 136 deputies voted for the measure, with just two abstentions and no opposing votes.
Muslims are about 3 percent of the Belgian population so clearly this was a much more pressing issue than the country's rising unemployment and ballooning national debt.
Belgian women of the Islamic faith are still free to travel on all the roadways of their country, unlike Arab women that reside in the Israeli controlled territories. Why not publish a post about these women and their restricted rights?
Keating, when will you speak for the rights of the arabs in the West Bank and Gaza? When will you speak for the rights of Christians in Saudi Arabia to practice their religion openly?
Sure, we know, Euro-Christians hate brown people, very xenophobic. It's very easy to bash the Euros, grow a sack and fight injustice everywhere.
Because there is injustice everywhere, it is wrong to talk about a specific example?
PCDE has a point, but he says it crappily
The fact that some countries are held to such higher standards is incredibly irritating to those nations' inhabitants, and very understandibly so. However, you should remember that removing injustices is often beneficial to the society that does so. In these causes, doing the right thing is not some moral burden, but simply a good business decision that is difficult because of short term costs. Green guy, (I only have one window open and forgot your exact name) you also have a point, injustice is injustice. Once again, however, you could solidly argue that it is immoral to focus on relatively miniscule injustices, when you could tackle much greater ones.
This is where I am glad to be an American, in our history, removing injustices has clearly been beneficial to the nation as a whole. Looking back, the tolereant opinion was the pragmatic one. However, I have the benefit of owing all my ideological loyalty to the United States as a nation and empathic morality in general. The cultures of my pre-American ancestors were forgotten a century ago. My family has no strong ties to any established religions, going back two genrations. I lack any line of "pure" racial heritage. Since injustices sometimes really do occasionally support cultures or faiths, I dont know what to say to people to are loyal to them, other than to stop being the way they are.
Now that Im on the subject, I dont get that crap about being "proud of your heritage." For me, NOT having corrupting, involuntary influences on my judgement, is awesome. No one made me support the US, my parents were far from dyed-in-the-wool patriots. I support the US because, after years of contemplation (including a few years as a kid when I was basically a socialist), I decided its what I should do.
flow my eyes when I hear Americans say "I support the US because, after years of contemplation (including a few years as a kid when I was basically a socialist), I decided its what I should do." I am awed that after years of contemplation and watching your country kill people on a hitherto unknown scale you have reached this decision. You are a wonderful human being.
You know, when I talk to expatriates they always ask about the U.S and its treatment of Muslims. I think I'll save this one for them.
What unknown scale? Oh... you must have forgotten about WW2... and Stalin's purges... and Mao's purges... and WW1, and the Congo Civil War... and the Soviet-Afghan War... and the Pre-WW2 Japanese invasion of China... and the series of natural disasters in China in the early 1900's that were allowed by the extreme negligence of the Manchus (The Chinese are showing up a lot on this list)... and the 1918 flu... and Im done (Those were just the things off the top of my head). You are wrong in that regards. Factually incorrect.
Unlike you, I base my evaluations on reality, not imaginary ideals. All large organizations are evil by the moral standards by which we judge an individual. I do not see the US as some perfect thing, I see it as by far the least evil superpower to ever exist. Also, I realize how much worse things would be without it. This is my challenge, if America disappeared tommarrow, what do you think would happen? I dont mean the initial chaos, I mean how would the world end up restructuring? I think it would be much worse. I actually want to hear your response.
I think some people here are forgetting the genocide of the native americans committed by the US. Talking of WWII, also proud of the hundreds of thousands civilians murdered by the US in Hiroshima and Nagasaki? The thousands murdered in South America? Afghanistan? Iraq?
An interesting video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4H_E8b-qmo
Here we go:
I am well aware about the Native Americans. The sad fact is that no people can survive if they are so much weaker than their neighbors. If the Aztecs would have advanced and Eurasian societies would have remained stone age, Im sure Iroquois children would now have to watch guilt-inducing documentaries about how their rapacious ancestors violeated the ancestral lands of the innocent, peace-loving white-and-yellow-skins. That is Human nature, not American nature, Western nature, or any other culture specific nature. A terrible as the near-elimination of the Native-Americans was, nothing else could have happened.
I am well aware of the atomic bombs. Your opinion is literally the opinion I held as a child. Without them the Japanese military hardliners would have been able to stay in power. The only thing that would have happened is a US, Soviet or US and Soviet land invasion. If the Americans would have led the invasion, it would have been Vietnam times ten. If the Soviets would have led it, they would have used the merciless, nightmarish scorched-earth tactics they used in Eastern Europe. Far more people would have died either way. The atomic bombs jarred the nation, allowing the emporer and the moderates to get out the order to the Japanese people and miliatary to stand down.
I am sure I am aware of whatever specific thing in South America you are alluding to, but youll have to say it. I wont try to address every little South American conflict you might be alluding to. But whichever, I am sure your understanding of it is simplistic and one-sided.
Iraq, I was too young to appreciate what was going on during the lead-up, but looking back, it was clearly an awful choice. Bush was an either evil or an idiot who did not see how things work. The justifications were faulty. However, in its conduct, the US took more efforts to protect innocents than any other force in a similar situation. If you wish to argue this, please make comparisons to real things, not ideals.
Afghanistan, intervention made more sense. Once again, compared to real things, there has been almost excessive concern for civilians.
Please return with solid arguments, thought-out logic, and analysis. If you do so, I will happily engage you in an academic, thoughtful discussion. If you come back with more sentimentality, I will probably not respond.
I shouldve mentioned the Native Americans
I went on to do some other things, and looking back, I probably should have included the Native Americans. I thought of including it, along with the Black Death, the Mongol Conquests, and the killings by Timur' i Lang. I thought since it was farther in the past than the other things I listed, it occured over several centuries, and was a complex phenomenon, instead of an isolatable event, I shouldnt. But, I probably should have mentioned it. I stand by my opinions about it, but its omission was incorrect of me.
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