Friday, October 30, 2009 - 11:06 AM

U.S. policymakers are celebrating this this morning's breakthrough in Tegucigalpa. Speaking in Islamabad, Hillary Clinton said:
I cannot think of another example of a country in Latin America that having suffered a rupture of its democratic and constitutional order overcame such a crisis through negotiation and dialogue.
In a press release, Sen. John Kerry also praised the agreement:
“I welcome the agreement ending the crisis in Honduras. The restoration of democracy is an historic accomplishment for the Honduran people. The accord provides a roadmap for elections on November 29, but success will depend on rigorous international monitoring of the accord’s implementation.
I would say that success depends more on both sides sticking to the agreement. Before he can return for to serve out his last month as president, Zelaya still has to win a vote in a Congress controlled by his opponents. Then there's an imminent election. It would be hard for any country to shift seamlessly from military standoff to democratic election mode in time to hold an a credible election in less than a month.
Yes, Zelaya is constitutionally barred from running but the inevitable chaos of the next few weeks could give him the opportunity to delay the vote or justify his own candidacy as a bid to restore national unity. Zelaya's desire to run again was, after all, what set this crisis in motion.
In other words, there are plenty of opportunities for shenanigans on both sides in the coming weeks. Last night's agreement is certainly welcome progress, but I think international observers should probably take a little more time to observe the situation and make sure it's not still Groundhog Day.
ORLANDO SIERRA/AFP/Getty Images
As someone who has followed the Honduran crisis closely, I take issue with this statement:
"Yes, Zelaya is constitutionally barred from running but the inevitable chaos of the next few weeks could give him the opportunity to delay the vote or justify his own candidacy as a bid to restore national unity. Zelaya's desire to run again was, after all, what set this crisis in motion. "
Do you have any proof that Zelaya actually was trying to run in the election, beyond the paranoid rhetoric of his opponents and the spurious reporting of the US media? Zelaya (who I have serious problems with nonetheless) has been consistent in his denial of this. I've seen this claim repeated, but never, not ONCE, actually backed up by a fully contextualized quote / document from Zelaya or his administration.
Zelaya's goal was the creation of a Constitutional Assembly that would amend the pathetic 1982 Constitution (called "the worst in the world" by Oscar Arias) through popular referendum. Even if he was trying to run again, the process he was designing would have required that the June 28 poll show a plurality of support, that Congress approve the referendum process, that the referendum pass, that the Assembly voted to change term limits, and that the final amendments pass through yet another round of congressional approval and popular referendum. Only at that point would Zelaya be able to run for office again, but the whole scenario playing out would have been not only unlikely but also at least a couple of years away. And remember, this is IF Zelaya really was interested in another term as president.
To suggest that it was Zelaya's "desire to run again" that started the crisis is most likely false, but more importantly it's highly simplistic. Zelaya had done a lot to rankle the political establishment - creating economic alliances with Cuba and Venezuela, raising the minimum wage, courting feminist groups - even before the "Constituyente" was making headlines. To ignore these points of tensions as a factor in his ouster is in my opinion a disservice to serious political analysis. If FP genuinely believes the claims about re-election - which are indeed controversial - it owes it to us readers to provide the proof that they are legit.
That being said, I do share the cautious attitude you have towards this current "solution" that's been signed. Let's hope that Honduras' political establishment is wise enough to begin the process of changing the constitution after the election; if not, more crises await down the line.
There's more to the Honduran "Crisis" Than Meets the Eye
When one says "Zelaya" they might as well say "Chavez/Zelaya" since Chavez is calling the shots. Chavez is calling the shots with Obama as well.
Is anyone asking why Obama is collaborating with Chavez? There's more to this than "drugs"...
the following is excerpted from "The Chavez-Obama U.N. Plot Against Honduras" by Cliff Kincaid
"...former Marxist SDS radical Tom Hayden, leader of Progressives for Obama, has written about the Obama-Chavez relationship. Based on his own inside sources of information, Hayden said that he thinks Obama and Chavez are working together on Honduras and have an "understanding," which he even describes as "collaboration." The call Chavez made to Shannon suggests that Chavez is calling the shots. "
" ...this would benefit Iran, a terrorist state developing nuclear weapons which is developing a vast network throughout Latin America. A recent report from the organization examines the deep Iranian connections to Venezuela as well as Bolivia...
"...If the Obama Administration is, in effect, acting as an agent of Venezuela and Iran in Honduras, such a foreign policy could be described not only as anti American but potentially treasonous, considering that the outcome could be the loss of another country in Latin America to the Chavez brand of communism.
"It is time for some investigative reporting into the nature of the Chavez Obama axis. "
Cliff Kincaid is the Editor of Accuracy in Media
I'm tired of these arguments, so I'll keep it real brief: you should check out these surveys done in Honduras to understand the issue better, not the Cold War bloviating of a nut like Cliff Kincaid.
http://www.narconews.com/docs/encuesta_honduras_agosto_2009.pdf
http://www.gqrr.com/index.php?ID=2399
Zelaya's goal was the creation of a Constitutional Assembly that would amend the pathetic 1982 Constitution (called "the worst in the world" by Oscar Arias) through popular referendum.
You mean the Constitution that's just so pathetic that they chose to amend it more than twenty times rather than simply throwing it out and doing another one? Don't make me laugh. They've had nearly three decades to throw out the Constitution and haven't done so.
And remember, this is IF Zelaya really was interested in another term as president.
He cared enough about that referendum to have his followers commit mob action to break into the governmental offices and illegally distribute the ballots for it. If he really weren't so interested in such a thing, why would he go to that much trouble?
"You mean the Constitution that's just so pathetic that they chose to amend it more than twenty times rather than simply throwing it out and doing another one? Don't make me laugh."
How many amendments has the US constitution had? The Honduran constitution is rather peculiar by our standards, for sure. Some of these peculiarities are hard to explain. Others are rooted in the history that preceded its creation, which might not be a bad topic for Brett to study before making such sweeping statements.
He cared enough about that referendum to have his followers commit mob action to break into the governmental offices and illegally distribute the ballots for it. If he really weren't so interested in such a thing, why would he go to that much trouble?
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ComeOn!
"You mean the Constitution that's just so pathetic that they chose to amend it more than twenty times rather than simply throwing it out and doing another one? Don't make me laugh. They've had nearly three decades to throw out the Constitution and haven't done so."
You're conflating the two opposing camps into a single pronoun "they". There is no medium for the entire population of Honduras (the group ultimately at stake here) to "throw out" the constitution. I can accept that the political establishment in Honduras has not taken the opportunity to trash the document, but that's because it's not in their interest. Constitutions, almost by definition, protect the interests of those who write them. The 1982 Constitution was written by businessmen, military leaders, and figures in the political establishment (including, in a very minor role, Micheletti).
The reason that calls for a new constitution have gained so much momentum is precisely because it is only these groups - and the United States - that are well-served by the constitution. The document excludes right for women and indigenous groups, assumes a permanent "banana-republic" slave economy and all the attendant perks for the business sector, and is so riddled with legal contradictions that it's surprising this sort of crisis has not been commonplace (or perhaps just a testament to the continuity of control over the country exercised by elites). The excluded groups, the poor, and those who don't tolerate what essentially amounts to a colonial model of growth have all been seething for some time, but only now, a generation removed from the violent 1980's, is the intersection of courage and numbers great enough for them to challenge the established order.
Your logic would argue against women's suffrage in early 20th century America on the basis that "they've had over 100 years to change the law". This ignores that women had no leverage to change the law, just like the poor Hondurans have no leverage to change the constitution to better protect their rights. Indeed, women gained the right to vote because they organized and challenged the established order. The relationship between constituent rebellion and constitutions is what allows societies to evolves. Constitutions by themselves arrogantly assume their own infallibility.
"He cared enough about that referendum to have his followers commit mob action to break into the governmental offices and illegally distribute the ballots for it. If he really weren't so interested in such a thing, why would he go to that much trouble?"
The "mob-action" you speak of was indeed a challenge to the constituted powers. I wouldn't argue against that; the military establishment barked, but Zelaya and the social movements barked back. I'll raise three other points:
1) Another supreme example of Honduras' constitutional problems is the fact that the military controls elections. The June 28 poll amounted to an opinion poll. It was non-binding, and if Gallup data from the summer is to be believed, people would actually have voted DOWN the poll had it happened. It would not have created a scandal if political life was not so militarized in Honduras.
2) It seems as though you're more concerned about militant actions that threaten the established constitutional order than you are about military actions that actually inflict violence on the population. This Hobbesian sentiment should be dead in the 21st Century; I can accept that you feel this way, but it's disturbing nonetheless.
3) You did not even address my main point. I don't dispute that Zelaya was willing to take severe steps because he wanted the referendum. The point was that re-election wasn't really on his agenda as far as the Constituyente goes. Are you making the assumption that Zelaya only would have supported a Constitutional Assembly if it allowed him to extend term limits? Even if you are going to assume that Zelaya's interest in the Assembly was selfish, I think the stronger argument is that he always wanted to be remembered as the guy who pushed for the Assembly; to suggest it was about term limits or becoming president-for-life would be playing into the fears of Honduras' ruling class, not engaging in factual analysis.
The document excludes right for women and indigenous groups, assumes a permanent "banana-republic" slave economy and all the attendant perks for the business sector, and is so riddled with legal contradictions that it's surprising this sort of crisis has not been commonplace (or perhaps just a testament to the continuity of control over the country exercised by elites). The excluded groups, the poor, and those who don't tolerate what essentially amounts to a colonial model of growth have all been seething for some time, but only now, a generation removed from the violent 1980's, is the intersection of courage and numbers great enough for them to challenge the established order.
Then Zelaya should have called for a new constitutional assembly or the like, not the half-assed referendum to gauge support for possibly trying for another term as President. He was more than content to work in that system to get elected.
Indeed, women gained the right to vote because they organized and challenged the established order. The relationship between constituent rebellion and constitutions is what allows societies to evolves. Constitutions by themselves arrogantly assume their own infallibility.
You just proved my point - you know how they addressed the issue of women suffrage? By amending the Constitution, just like how the Hondurans have been doing with the 1982 Constitution. I brought it up because I've heard a constant refrain from the Zelaya-sympathizer about how the 1982 constitution is shit written by the military.
The "mob-action" you speak of was indeed a challenge to the constituted powers. I wouldn't argue against that; the military establishment barked, but Zelaya and the social movements barked back. I'll raise three other points:
It was blatantly breaking the law - an American equivalent would have been if Obama, after two terms, had had the Democratic Party supporters forcibly attempt to distribute ballots for a third term.
1) Another supreme example of Honduras' constitutional problems is the fact that the military controls elections. The June 28 poll amounted to an opinion poll. It was non-binding, and if Gallup data from the summer is to be believed, people would actually have voted DOWN the poll had it happened. It would not have created a scandal if political life was not so militarized in Honduras.
And the Honduran Supreme Court ruled it unconstitutional. At that point, Zelaya could have backed down, or tried to find a constitutional way to gauge support, but no - he had to do it his way, law-breaking or not.
2) It seems as though you're more concerned about militant actions that threaten the established constitutional order than you are about military actions that actually inflict violence on the population. This Hobbesian sentiment should be dead in the 21st Century; I can accept that you feel this way, but it's disturbing nonetheless.
After booting Zelaya out of the country, the military deferred to the Honduran Legislature. That's respecting civilian government - had it been a true military coup, the generals would have booted out the government and taken effective power.
In hopes to avoiding a dragged-out debate I'll keep my responses brief:
"Then Zelaya should have called for a new constitutional assembly or the like, not the half-assed referendum to gauge support for possibly trying for another term as President."
This is what he did, as I've argued. The polling question from June 28 asked if citizens wanted to vote on an assembly in a fourth ballot box in the November elections. It had nothing to do with another term.
"You just proved my point - you know how they addressed the issue of women suffrage? By amending the Constitution, just like how the Hondurans have been doing with the 1982 Constitution."
Your "point" ignores the many decades of organization and action that women's rights activists took part in to win that amendment. The point I'm trying to make is that these actions - some of which involved breaking the law - were the substance and character of the change; it's woefully elitist to simplify the process of social evolution to what amounts to only the final stubborn concessions of establishment lawmakers.
"It was blatantly breaking the law - an American equivalent would have been if Obama, after two terms, had had the Democratic Party supporters forcibly attempt to distribute ballots for a third term."
I can think of a more accurate equivalent but for time's sake will not engage my imagination.
"And the Honduran Supreme Court ruled it unconstitutional. At that point, Zelaya could have backed down, or tried to find a constitutional way to gauge support, but no - he had to do it his way, law-breaking or not."
I simply to do not know enough to offer ideas as to how he could have done anything constitutionally. The constitution is a controlled document; this is my point. I'm not making a legalistic argument, though you seem to respond to me as such. To understand more why I believe we cannot take the "legality" of Honduran political life too seriously, read the report "Captive States" by the Washington Office on Latin America, or the annual country reports issued by the State Department.
"After booting Zelaya out of the country, the military deferred to the Honduran Legislature. That's respecting civilian government - had it been a true military coup, the generals would have booted out the government and taken effective power."
That's respecting civilian government? Great - how about respecting civilians? Many human rights groups inside and outside the country have contended that they have not. No need to list the litany of offenses. Although I will say it could have been a lot worse, and in my opinion would have been if the international community hadn't condemned the coup so quickly and forcefully.
Bret sounds like Goebbels: White becomes black, and a democratically elected president thrown out of office is not a coup!
You ask: Why did Zelaya work within the existing constitution? Do you mean that people who don't agree with a constitution should not work within that constitution and thus exclude themselves from influence?
Democracy is yet to arrive to Honduras where 10 families control the economy along with the US, the press is the hostage of power groups which supported the coup. A constitutional amendment could well be a first step
I live in Venezuela and I know what is to have a President who violates the constitution. Some people may believe that Honduras has a bad constitution, that few families control the economy and whatever, but it is their constitution and the rule of law passes through it. Zelaya broke the law and therefore he was called for trial by the Supreme Court. The same thing happened in Venezuela and President Carlos Andres Perez was ousted 1987). In Honduras the military team ordered to capture President Zelaya, believed that given the background, it would be safer to take him to a third country (Costa Rica)and avoid a possible blodshed (terrible mistake). And know the OAS and the whole world is pressuring Honduras, a tiny and peacefull country to accept back a dictator, supress the elected ( by congress) of the interinm president (Micheleti). If now, there is a real blodshed, those who pressed Honduras government to back up will be guilty for it ( as they are guilty for not paying attention timely to the Darfur case )
"Some people may believe that Honduras has a bad constitution, that few families control the economy and whatever, but it is their constitution and the rule of law passes through it."
How can we take seriously your opinion if you're willing to dismiss the the heart of the issue with a "whatever"? The region as a whole has one of the worst income gaps in the world, and Honduras is no exception. These people feel the commodity bubbles that Western banks and markets create way worse than we here in America do. In fact, an argument could be made that Zelaya only reached out to Chavez because Bush basically told him "tough shit" when Honduras was reeling from super-high oil and food prices a couple of years ago. Remember, Zelaya himself was a rich businessman who fit the party mold when he was elected, not some cavalier socialist as some make it seem.
You, like Brett, have conflated all sectors of Honduras into a single pronoun: it is "their" constitution. I'm sure most or all Hondurans want it to be "their" constitution, but they've recognized that without radical action, it would always be the constitution of the establishment. You speak of the "rule of law", but I ask what that even means once it ceases to do anything for the citizenry at large and becomes just an end in itself. The current iteration of social and economic relations in Honduras - protected by said constitution - has for almost three decades done very little to lift the Honduran people out of poverty. I think they deserve the right to organize peacefully for change, even outside the legal domain. Denying them this right would mean denying the basis of almost every successful social movement.
I'm finding that this issue often brings differences in political philosophies into relief. I'll end my run here, because I don't wish to further engage in a philosophical discussion that beyond the scope of a quickie passport article.
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